Selective Service is one of the Worst And Most Sexist Discriminations against Men

Right now, Micheal B. Elgin Jr. is fighting one of the worst injustices and most sexist practices in America right now, registering for the draft.  The draft is a male only lottery, and instead of winning money, men win the chance to fight and die for politics and wars they may not agree with.  As Warren Farrell puts it, the biggest fight of the feminist movement was Roe vs. Wade, or “My body, my choice.”  For guys, we still don’t have that.  Instead with things like selective service, we have “My body, not my choice.”

 Some might argue that it doesn’t matter, that the draft hasn’t been used since the Vietnam war.   It doesn’t matter since we still don’t have a voice or a choice.  If we don’t register we cannot go to college, or work in comfy government jobs.  We also can a will go to jail as is the case with Micheal B. Elgin Jr.  Women have no requirement to register or even the ability to.  There is no equivalent requirement of them as citizens in the United States.  This is clearly discrimination based on gender, and no one should put up with it.  And the one person who peacefully protested the practice over twenty years ago, has lost his job over it.  Talk about stupidity!

Man who didn’t register for draft sues IRS over firing
By Anna Badkhen, Globe Staff  |  January 5, 2008

When he turned 18, Michael B. Elgin Jr. was a homeless father of a toddler, trying to get himself through high school while living with friends, relatives and, sometimes, in his car. Elgin did not know at the time, his lawyer says, but by failing to register for selective military service within 30 days of his 18th birthday, he broke the law.

Last year, Elgin’s employer of 18 years, the Internal Revenue Service, fired him, citing a ban on federal employment of men who have not registered, despite his exemplary record and appeals from his supervisors and co-workers. Last week, Elgin, 42, of Stoughton, challenged his dismissal in federal court in Boston on the grounds that it discriminated against him because he is a man. Women are not allowed to register.

Elgin declined to speak for the record.

His lawsuit is the latest challenge to the Selective Service System, the federal registry of all men 18 and older that would serve as the basis of any future military draft.

“It labels women as second-class, and it imposes a burden and a penalty on men . . . that it doesn’t impose on women,” said Elgin’s attorney, Boston civil rights lawyer Harvey A. Schwartz. Men who fail to register for selective service are barred from ever working for federal agencies or receiving federal loans, and, in 35 states, are not allowed to obtain a driver’s license, said Dan Amon, a spokesman for the registry. Violators also can be fined up to $250,000 or imprisoned for up to five years, Amon said, but those provisions have not been enforced since the 1980s.

Schwartz said barring women from registering for selective service is an “anachronism.”

Elgin was hired by the Internal Revenue Service in 1991 as a low-level data transcriber in Andover and worked his way up in the agency, according to the lawsuit he filed Dec. 28, naming as plaintiffs Henry M. Paulson Jr., the secretary of the Treasury, and the Treasury Department, which oversees the IRS. Elgin’s son grew up and served an 18-month tour of duty with the US Army in Iraq, the lawsuit states.

Elgin received repeated praise and numerous promotions at work, until the agency discovered, during a routine background investigation when he was proposed for a promotion in 2002, that he had failed to register for selective service, the lawsuit states.

The Office of Personnel Management, a federal agency that manages civilian federal employees, said Elgin had knowingly failed to register for selective service, and ruled that he could not hold a federal job.

For five years, Elgin’s supporters tried to overturn that decision. Elgin’s supervisors and members of the National Treasury Employees Union wrote letters to US Senator John F. Kerry, asking him to intervene, said James Chisholm, a Kerry spokesman. Chisholm said Kerry wrote two letters to the IRS on Elgin’s behalf in 2006, asking the agency to issue an eligibility waiver that would allow Elgin to remain employed at the agency.

“He seems like a man who made an honest mistake,” said Chisholm. “He seems like an honest and decent man.”

Senator Edward M. Kennedy also sent letters to the IRS and the Office of Personnel Management on Elgin’s behalf, said his spokeswoman, Melissa Wagoner.

The IRS, in turn, asked the personnel management agency to reconsider. That request was denied last February, Elgin’s lawsuit states. July 27, 2007, Elgin was fired.

“Simply put, if Mr. Elgin were a woman and not a man, he would have retained his federal employment,” his lawsuit states.

Officials at the Treasury Department and the IRS office in Massachusetts declined to comment yesterday. The Office of Personnel Management also did not comment. In addition to reinstating Elgin in his old job, the lawsuit asks that the court rule it unconstitutional to penalize men for failing to register for selective service because that contravenes the constitutional ban on punishment without trial.

The lawsuit also seeks to have the court rule that the Selective Service System discriminates on the basis of gender.

The debate over gender discrimination by the Selective Service System began soon after the registration was reintroduced in 1980, five years after the end of registration for the draft. In one challenge, the US Supreme Court ruled in 1981 that since all men registered with the Selective Service are considered combat replacements, and since Congress forbids women to go into combat, women should not be registered. All subsequent attempts to allow women to register were struck down on the basis of that ruling.

“But that decision was based on the status of women in the military at that time, and it’s a whole new world now,” Schwartz said. About 196,000 women are serving in the military. The Pentagon has maintained that women do not serve in combat positions but has said that servicewomen have killed and died in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

This is the second time Schwartz has filed a lawsuit questioning selective service. In 2003, Schwartz filed a lawsuit demanding that women be allowed to register for selective service on behalf of his son, who was 18 at the time, his daughter, who was 17, and three of their Massachusetts friends.

Schwartz lost that lawsuit, did not appeal it, “and I’ve regretted it ever since.”

This case, he hopes, will be different. “It’s a real life person who was treated poorly. I think it has a lot of appeal,” he said. No hearing date has been set yet.

Anna Badkhen can be reached at abadkhen@globe.com. 

About these ads

41 thoughts on “Selective Service is one of the Worst And Most Sexist Discriminations against Men

  1. Anyone who questions the blatant sexism of selective service is suffering from a mental illness of some sort. As long as women enjoy the right to vote, own property, and hold positions of authority then they should be required to serve their country just as men currently are. The IRS should be ashamed of itself for what it’s done to this poor man. They should give him his job back and pay him for time loss and court fees, and etc.

    • I agree, men are the most discrimnated class in america.

      this has to stop.

      im working on a law suit right now, to sue the S.S for sexual discrimanttion….. but i dont have enough money as of yet,

      once i get the money…. im suing for sexual discrimnation.

      im trying to get in contact with the ACLU,,,, and Mens rights groups.

      but the ACLU does not offer much protection for men…. esspaily white men.

      no exaclty a big suprise right?

      and men rights group are still to small to have the funding to help.

      the fact is….. the biggest factor that allows men to be discrimnated agsisnt….. is lack of male suport,

      men want to get laid…. and they are shamed from birth by women for not doing what women think they should do….

      and men are under the false impresstion that doing what women ask, gets them laid….. its not true,,,, just the opostie in fact. (Female psycology)

      …..

      there are things to be done.

      1. men need to stop allowing women to discimnate agsint the,

      2. to do that….. men need to realize that women have some issues…. like not understanding what they really want from men

      for example

      Women: i want a man to respect me

      Man: i respect you

      Women:..hmmm…. sorry, i need a real man.

      man: ???? wtf?

      .
      3. men need to start standing up for them sleves….. and that will come after they realize that doing what women ask is counter productive to getting laid

      *once men realize they get laid more,,,, for standing up for them selves….. they will stop tolerating women discimrantion. (i know not all women are sexist….. but many are)

      * ones men stick up for them sleves enough….. women will not shame men for refusing to give women special treatment….. thus it will have a snow ball effect.

      4. men need to donate money to mens rights groups….. to consolodate power and resources.

      5 men then need to take a unified stand….. thus defeating sexist, and winning eqaul rights. and privliges.

      …..

      added bonus….. sexual liberation of men is key…. becuase its the urge for sex why men put up with this in the first place….. (as well as how they were raised….. or as i like to call it, brain washing

      sex bots….. legelzied prostituion…. virtual realility sex….. these will all help…. sound a bit crazy?…. maby it is…. but it is the truth….. sexual liberated men,,,, will stand up for them selves.

  2. I am a man and was in the Army and worked in IT. Women should have to register and there are many support roles not just combat.

  3. Before we can annouce ourselves as a gender equal society, woman need to take up the same responsibilities as men. It is completely absured that in America 2009 woman are still oppressed. If we vote. If we work. If we contribute to society than we are citizens. I personally don’t believe in the draft, but as a woman, I would be proud to sign up for the draft. It’s progress. If we are to demand equality we need to take the shit that comes with it.

  4. We don’t have a problem with a draft in the UK, but there is a lot of sexism in the military. I find it objectionable for example that women are not equally liable to become combat troops both because they are capable and also because the benefits derived from the military, such as free university education, are given in recognition of the risks taken.

    At present, women can join the UK military safe in the knowledge that they will never have to put their lives at risk in frontline combat. The greatest dangers they face are equal to civilian contracters in warzones, who do not derive these benefits. They get free education, excellent health benefits and all the rest, the same as the men, even though only the men take the risks which earn them.

  5. I’d jump to protect my home, or the homes of my friends and family. But don’t tell me to fight for corrupt politicians who dodged the draft themselves. As far as I’m concerned, that isn’t what this country is about.

  6. It really pisses me off to hear people say things like “I’ve never heard of sexism agains men” This makes me sick, The amount of Sexism against men is astounding and we are so brain washed we can’t see it(most people, i know there are smart people out there who see it) I am going to change this world(or atleast America since its insanly sexist) I will change things. This is my biggest passion and men will have their voice!

  7. And people say that women can get out of it too easily because they can be pregnant or have a broken arm or something yet men are required to go even if their disabled.

    • thanks… i appricate it.

      good to see gender nutral women…. kinda hard to find in america.

      i know…. millions of women are gender nutral and fair….. but hundreds of millions are not.

      but thank you.

  8. I say if men have to register for the draft that means women should have to register for the draft. I also say if women don’t have to register for the draft that means men should not have to
    register for the draft.

    • agreed and so does the National Organization of Women by the way. Their policy in 1980 ihas not been changed, Here it is
      BE IT RESOLVED, that NOW opposes the reinstatement of registration and draft for both men and women. NOW’s primary focus on this issue is on opposition to registration and draft. However, if we cannot stop the return to registration and draft, we also cannot choose between our sisters and brothers. We oppose any registration or draft that excludes women as an unconstitutional denial of rights to both young men and women. And we continue to oppose all sex discrimination by the volunteer armed services.

      This policy was adopted by the NOW National Board in January 1980.

  9. The world consists of kings and pawns…not queens and pawns. Discrimination exists; so what? A man can’t have or stop an abortion. A woman can’t register for the selective service or fight in combat. A person of commitment will act of their conscious and be damned the consequence.

    • A man can’t have an abortion because it’s physically impossible, not because they aren’t allowed to. But guess what? A women can register for it if they just allow them to.

      That being said, I don’t think anybody should have to register for selective service…

  10. I think you guys have it all wrong. While the selective service is indeed sexist, and I think that’s wrong, that isn’t the main issue.

    The main issue is that the selective service exists at all. Extending it to women would just make them suffer too. We need to completely abolish the selective service! We can’t truly call ourselves a free country if we attempt to force people to sign up for something that may in the future require them to fight in an unjust war with threats of punishment.

    • The only problem with that would be if our country were invaded, we wouldn’t be able to form an army to protect ourselves. While I am against war, I recognize that it does happen and we need a means of self-defense. I have a problem with the draft for just men and when its used in a war that shouldn’t involve the U.S. (Vietnam for example)

      • I completely agree with that . If there is to be a draft for any reason it should include women, Thats only fair and women have already shown that they can function in over 80% of military positions. There is no excuse to exempt them. In addition any women who believes in equality would not want to be exempt from this obligation on the basis of gender. Mens lives are not less important than womens lives every life is valued regardless of gender.

      • Honestly, if the U.S. were to be invaded,there would more a huge surge of volunteers, so the draft wouldn’t even be necessary. The only time it’s used is when it’s a war no one wants to fight, and if that’s the case, we probably shouldn’t be having it. (Civil war being the only exception I can see.)

  11. we need to stop giving women sexist special treatment…. and women should be forced to pay reperations to any and all men forced to sign up for the s.s.

    the only reason why women are not forced to be drafted.. is due to most women being sexist…. they both beg men to pretend woemn are eqaul… then beg men for special treatment… its pathetic.

    stop giving women spercial treatment… take away all there rights untill they grow up like an adult… and force all women who are over the age of 18, to pay repaertaions to any men forced to sign up for the slective service… any women over the age of 18 owes men lots and lots of money…. then after women pay men back… they have be drafted or go to jail or lose all eqaul rights.

    • I agree wholeheartedly that women should be included in selective service. However, I think you are wrong to assume that all women are reliant on the government’s mollycoddling. There are many women who are loud advocates of equal selective service. It is also unfair to stereotype women as needy and emotional.
      Furthermore, your proposed solution to this problem is the very thing you are protesting. If the roles were reversed, would you want men to pay women for years of special treatment they were not responsible for, and then be forced to sign up or go to jail? I know I wouldn’t. Please don’t jump to conclusions next time you make a point, as you are less likely to offend people then.

  12. If a woman is shot she will not be any more dead than a man.
    If a woman shoots someone the victim will not be any less dead than if a man shot them.

    that said it is not a big deal because the draft is not active and as society becomes more liberal (by which i mean modern, not leftist!) i think it will go away.

    I think that it is more sexist that women are protected from any and all forms of genital mutilation (A protection that they definitely should have) but boys are subjected to it without there consent as babies.

    if you don’t consider circumcision a big deal than consider how those child custody things tend to go instead. (if you don’t know much about that mom almost always gets the better deal)

      • If male circumcision was anything like FGM the penis would be removed and the balls sewn over the hole. There is no comparison between disfiguring someone so they can never have sex without excruciating pain and zero pleasure and nipping a bit of skin off.

      • It’s not just “nipping a little skin”, it’s a surgery, and that skin has a lot of good sensitivity. Also, notice that nate said *any* form of genital mutilation. That doesn’t necessarily mean the most extreme cases of FGM, but just any sort of modification whatsoever is illegal on a girl under 18, even a prinprick to draw blood for a religious ceremony. Male circumcision is pretty comparable to removing or reducing the labia, which would probably be an outrageous act if done to a baby girl.

  13. Because of political correctness the people (men) can not openly speak about the issues and how it affects us (mostly men). The Debate countinues today on rather or not we (US Gov.) should still use the System, and or have Women sign up as well.

    The idea of gender equality is misused by many people in Western countries, as well as Anglosphonic countries: which can socially, politically, economically, financially, and culturally become a weapon for women.

    I believe we need to teach future generations to respect others for who they are, and understand that no one is perfect.

  14. Since there is no draft…we must conclude that mandatory Selective Service registration for males only is really Penis Registration. I’m not sure what end this must serve, but I’m certain that it does not bode well for penis owners.

  15. If men want to have rights, they need to stop raping women, everytime a man goes to a prostitute and rapes and abuses her, every time a man rapes a little girl child or a woman, he is losing his rights and proving he is dogshit. Out of 5 grown up males 3 are rapist of women or girl children, how can a man be so discousting as to rape a small baby ?? thats horrendous, horrifiying, how can they do something like that? they spend all of their energy harming women, raping babys and harming, deciving, betraying and manipulating others, especially women and women childresn, they are repulsive, YET THEY DARE TO PLAY VICTIMS to strip us women from our rights, that is so distubing, when did a woman rape a baby boy, when did a group of women got together to brutally rape a boy and later murder him? men get together to rap and murder girls and women EVERYDAY, men rape girl babys and women EVERY MINUTE…men are dogshit no doubt, useless dogshit to throw to the garbage….men say they want more “rights” hahahahahahahahhU LOSERS DOGSHIT IF U WANT RIGHTS DONT FORGET U HAVE OBLIGATIONS FIRST, U HAVE THE OBLIGATIONS TO RESPECT BABY GIRLS and WOMEN, and respect is NOT saying “i respect u”, respect is NOT RAPING, is NOT RAPING PROSTITUTES OR GIRL CHILDREN in vulnerable positions, RESPECT IS AN ACTION NOT A WORD, all men “say” they “respect women” EVEN CONVICTE RAPIST AND WOMEN MURDERS say that !!! SO WAKE UP U LOSERS ASSHOLESS is not what u say IT IS WHAT U DO, STOP RAPING if u want to ever be consider human, definitely men are inferior than women, men can talk and say many nice things, however is their ACTIONS what shows who they truly are

  16. If men want to have rights, they need to stop raping women, everytime a man goes to a prostitute and rapes and abuses her, every time a man rapes a little girl child or a woman, he is losing his rights and proving he is dogshit. Out of 5 grown up males 3 are rapist of women or girl children, how can a man be so discosting as to rape a small baby ?? thats horrendous, horrifiying, how can they do something like that? they spend all of their energy harming women, raping babys and harming, deciving, betraying and manipulating others, especially women and girl children, they are repulsive, YET THEY DARE TO PLAY VICTIMS to strip us women from our rights, that is so disturbing, when did a woman rape a baby boy, when did a group of women got together to brutally rape a boy and later murder him? men get together to rape and murder girls and women EVERYDAY, men rape girl babys and women EVERY MINUTE…men are dogshit no doubt, useless dogshit to throw to the garbage….men say they want more “rights” hahahahahahahahhU LOSERS DOGSHIT BEFORE THINKING “about ur rights” GET REALIZE THAAT U HAVE OBLIGATIONS FIRST, U HAVE THE OBLIGATIONS TO RESPECT BABY GIRLS and WOMEN, and respect is NOT saying “i respect u”, respect is NOT RAPING, RESPECT to WOMEN is NOT RAPING PROSTITUTES OR GIRL CHILDREN in vulnerable positions, RESPECT to women is TO NEVER intend to USE ANY WOMAN sexually. RESPECT IS AN ACTION NOT A WORD, all men “say” they “respect women” EVEN CONVICTED RAPIST AND WOMEN MURDERS say that !!! SO WAKE UP U LOSERS ASSHOLESS is not what u say IT IS WHAT U DO, STOP RAPING if u want to ever be consider human, definitely men are inferior than women, men can talk and say many nice things, however is their ACTIONS what shows who they truly are

    • Troll more. Anyone with any sense knows it’s only a small percentage that are actually like that. You’re basically just saying “all men are bad” as a hasty generalization which is the most obvious logical fallacy in the book, and cherry picking the worst of men to represent the rest of them. I guess it makes sense a troll would post in a thread that’s about men’s rights. If it makes you feel better, there are plenty of examples I could cherry pick of women who shake babies, steal semen from unsuspecting men to get child support for more drugs, kidnap others’ children to claim as their own, and far far worse.

    • Stupid bitch!This is why I hate sexists cunt suckers such as yourself.If you hate men so much then go suck clit you lesbian bitch!

  17. The 14th amendment isn’t usually enforced when laws only discriminate against males. This maybe because our culture says that males cannot be victims or should be ignored and laughed it when it occurs, and that females cannot be perpetrators and therefore should rarely be held accountable for their choices and actions. For example females are protected from genital mutilation, but circumcising baby boys is perfectly legal. We also have the Violence Against Women Act which clearly excludes men from being afforded the same protections under the law, and in many cases can actually trample on a mans legal rights. Selective Service is just another one of those laws that is ignored because it only affects males negatively.

    Members of congress declare war and people vote for members of congress. Logically all voters and all people who are eligible to hold a seat in congress, men and women, should have to register for selective service because they are taking part in a choice which affects the possible declaration of war, which can lead to a draft. Voting or running for congress without having to also register for the draft means taking part in a decision making process that can only risk the lives of others. This should have been taken into consideration with the implementation of the 19th amendment. If it is illegal to discriminate against voters based on sex, then it should also be illegal to discriminate against who should be required to defend that vote based on sex.

    Yes women should have to register for selective service. It should be part of voter registration.
    All laws and policies should be gender neutral.

  18. Pingback: Selective Service is one of the Worst And Most Sexist Discriminations against Men | Sensation Experience

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s